Is GOD real?
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dubbsy;197891 wrote:
The only reason I do is because I am from a family of devoted Christians. It's a holiday I'm given and it's a time to gather with family.This is the family I grew up in - I was baptized and I went through confirmation. It was about the time of my confirmation that I started to really question religion and realized my beliefs were not in line with those of Christianity. The fact is I do not believe in (a) God and I do not believe in a heaven or hell. I live my life for the hear and now, not out of fear for what may happen to me after I die. Where I came from is not important to me. Growing up atheist/agnostic in a religious family I've really tried to keep my beliefs to myself. You believe what you believe if you allow me my beliefs. Don't try to change my mind, don't force your beliefs onto me, and most of all DO NOT judge me because I don't believe in God (that is one of my biggest complaints - the view by some that atheists/agnostics are devil worshiping immoral people).
I believe the exact same thing he just said.
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A few comments:
"I think Christianity is great except for all of the Christians"
-- somebody famous.Please don't think badly of Christianity because of some of the people claiming to be its followers cannot meet a bar that their own religion says they'll never be able to meet while here. Perfection is not of this Earth. That doesn't excuse poor behavior, but it may help explain it.
I don't beleive in a young-earth.
I first started reading about radioactive decay in elementary school. Carbon dating is used to establish the age of organic matter, on the presumptino that the ratio of c12 to c14 became fixed once the organism died. However, carbon 14 only has a half-life of around 5000 years.
Crust/earth dating via isotopic decay would use something like Uranium-238, which has a HL of around 4.5 BILLION years and which is found in lots of places.
But that's incidental -- nearly every scientific mechanism we have, from all kinds of differenct branches of science -- astronomy, geology, particle physics, statistics, etc -- all corroborate on the approximate age of the earth and the universe. That's not to say that that answer is "right", it's more to say that, to the best of any rational understanding, that's reality to the extent that our observations are accurate. Does that cause a conflict with a literal interpretation of the bible? Maybe... or maybe I just don't understand how to reconcile my understanding of the bible and my understanding of science.
However, God created us with minds to think and sensory apparatus to understand the universe we were created in. A God that intentionally manipulates observational evidence to "fool us" into thinking one thing, when something else is actually true, is difficult for me to accept. Additionally, the age of the earth or the universe doesn't affect my day to day life, it doesn't change the expectations God has of me for how I treat others, and knowing the age of the earth isn't a prerequisite for getting into Heaven. From an information-density is related to importance perspective, God spends almost no time talking about the age of the earth, but Jesus spends a LOT of time talking about how to spend money, how to treat others, and so on. I will spend the rest of my life trying to get the "treating my neighbors properly" thing right, and I'll still fail at it. I don't think it will be a big deal if I don't have the age of the earth thing worked out.
- Someone mentinoed that they have had some rough things happen in their family and are unsure how a loving god could allow this to happen, or perhaps how he could do these things.
I can relate to that a little -- when I was 9 my mom died, and a few years later I found out that it was suicide. I had grown up going to sunday school and so a topical question in my mind was "why did you do this to me?". And of course, you don't usually get satisfying answers to stuff like that. Nobody feels better after hearing "bad things can happen to good people", but there's not much more to say.
Evil exists in the world, because man chooses to do evil. Why does God allow Evil? Because God allows free-will. No one can be virtuous.. nobody can do right.. if they do not have the ability to do wrong. There'd be no point in loving Jesus or struggling to do what is just, if you had no choice in the matter.
This is the paradox of free will -- God created a man that could choose to not love him, so that there'd be meaning in man choosing to love him.
So anyway, I can understand being hurt or confused about what God was doing when he let tragedy into your life. What I would suggest is that you take some steps to resolve the doubts you're having sooner rather than later. You've got your whole life to make up your mind, but nobody knows how much time that really is...
Finally, a book that I really enjoyed a lot was called "The Case for Christ". It examines a lot of the traditional questions and arguments people have about Christianity and Jesus... is the bible real? was jesus real? What about this apparent contradiction?.. etc etc.
It's a paperback and its setup kind of like a court case... where the guy interviews expert witnesses about each topic... and it lets the reader "be the jury".. .in the sense of... in a real court case, you listen to the evidence, and you decide.. which of these competing theories best explains the evidence?
I can loan my copy of the book to anyone who's interested in reading it -- just PM me if you'd like to give it a read.
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DaveH;198026 wrote:
Here is an interesting question for the people who don't believe. What do you think happens when you die? Obviously no right or wrong answer for you, I'm just curious what you think.I'll be buried and fertilize new growth. To be honest, I don't want to go to a cemetery. Don't stick me in a sealed box inside a sealed box so that I can last for eternity. Grind me up and feed me to a wheat field.
Like I said, I live my life for my life not my death - the hear and now. When I die and if there is a god I end up going to hell, then hey, joke's on me. I'd like to think I've been more than a decent person in my life (even with no religious beliefs, I still have morals.. standards.. knowledge of what's right and wrong) so if I stand at those infamous pearly gates I'll get through but I'm sure not expecting that to happen.
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Lemme share this with all of you. I work with a guy, who is the most religious person I know. He is a very down to Earth type of guy, who is easy to get along with.
I asked him what religion he considers himself. He thought for a moment, and answered, "I'm a Bible believing Christian." Basically, what the Bible says, goes. Let me tell you, he lives up to this as well. He lives his live ABSOLUTELY by the rules set forth in the Bible.
He is who I turn to if I ever have a religious question, because he actually knows what he is talking about. He can quote scripture for hours. I have a ton of respect for this man because HE ACTUALLY WALKS THE WALK. He studies the Bible.
He doesn't "half-ass" his religion like 99% of the people responding to this thread. Where they pick and choose what parts they want to follow. That, in my book, is BS. Follow the rules, or don't tell me you're "religious". Seems like people just want to follow the "easy" parts of the religion, and then go to "heaven".
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I like how nothing every gets accomplished in these threads bc nobody is gonna change their mind...
BTW...personally, I'm not a fan of a lot of the things the Catholic church stands for...It's almost as if you have to pay to be a member...Basically, I dislike the Catholic church for all of the reasons Luther placed his thesis on the doors of the church...the Catholic church used to be highly corrupt and IMO is still in recovery mode. There's a difference between traditional and weird, and they walk on the line of it...This is just from personal experience btw...Also, purgatory sounds like a bunch of bs that the Catholic church invented during the inquisition in order to sell indulgences...I know some Catholics don't believe in it, but some still do.
But ummmm...yup i know that wont change ppls minds but w/e...ya thats right i said it...what up now biaches?
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HandoEX;198047 wrote:
So from now on I should turn to 2wheeler to get approval to call myself a Christian? Do I have to live up to this co-workers standards in order to be spiritual?
Of course not. You can just be another "99%'er". I can believe I'm not white and "call" myself light-skinned black all I want.So, you're Christian, and I'm black.
BTW.....your "God" will know whether you've followed the rules or not, and won't care what you "think" you are. "Heaven" is only going to allow the true followers.
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2wheeler;198056 wrote:
BTW.....your "God" will know whether you've followed the rules or not, and won't care what you "think" you are. "Heaven" is only going to allow the true followers.
I don't think Jesus ever taught that following "rules" would lead to him.
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