*2008 Presidential Thread* McCain vs Obama *Poll*

[Guest]

StangerBanger96;221187 wrote:
Though it won't actually happen, I do believe it would be pretty neat to see Ron Paul elected based off write in votes.

+1

Sadly, I agree with the former.

[Rexwagon]

reshalghoul;221404 wrote:
Whether he was there or not doesn't concern me. It's his choice to join a volunteer service. Again, Google the name Josh Rushing. He was a 14-year Marine lieutenant that gave up a pension and lifetime medical service, in addition to numerous other incentives and benefits, to work for Al Jazeera. Why? Military bullshit, particularly in regards to the Iraq War. Am I grateful that our men and women are at home and abroad defending and serving out country? Yes. Should Saddam have been taken out of power? Yes. Do all Arabs hate America/Americans? Hell no. This is the most ridiculous shit I've ever heard. I love how everyone seems to have their head buried in the sand. "We're fighting for Iraqi freedom! Nope, it's definitely not an occupation, and we sure as hell aren't guarding/taking the oil fields. No sir."

Yes its a volunteer service. And no I dont have a problem going there. Fuck I even volunteered to go the second time. Maybe you should man up and do something with your life like that. We do have a dont ask dont tell policy so you can join too. LOL.

As far as I am concerned you are no different than one of them. But whatever.

Are you muslim? Is this why you are sticking up for them?

O yeah what are these other numerous benifits because i am not getting them, and in order to get a lifetime pension he would have to put 20yrs of service in.

[Parker]

reshalghoul;221404 wrote:
Whether he was there or not doesn't concern me. It's his choice to join a volunteer service. Again, Google the name Josh Rushing. He was a 14-year Marine lieutenant that gave up a pension and lifetime medical service, in addition to numerous other incentives and benefits, to work for Al Jazeera. Why? Military bullshit, particularly in regards to the Iraq War. Am I grateful that our men and women are at home and abroad defending and serving out country? Yes. Should Saddam have been taken out of power? Yes. Do all Arabs hate America/Americans? Hell no. This is the most ridiculous shit I've ever heard. I love how everyone seems to have their head buried in the sand. "We're fighting for Iraqi freedom! Nope, it's definitely not an occupation, and we sure as hell aren't guarding/taking the oil fields. No sir."

reshalghoul;221405 wrote:
No, he made a stupid statement, by saying I shouldn't live here because I don't think all Arabs should be dead. It was an asinine statement.

Edit: I always make sure to wear a helmet (brain's too valuable) and I don't drive like an asshat. What's the name of the trucking company you manage (no reason)?

reshalghoul;221406 wrote:
You're quoting statements I never said and speaking like you're the de facto person on citizenship. Good God man, grow some gray matter for a change!

reshalghoul;221408 wrote:
+1

Sadly, I agree with the former.

maybe you should try multi-quoting... stupid n00b

[GarageAlchemist]

tjamz;221332 wrote:
I honestly don't see how it can hurt. Does it show weakness if we go in and demand that they stop their nuclear programs, etc....? I know we don't negotiate with terrorists, but really, what other solution is there to try short of killing all of them?

I know full good and well that we are the one shining beacon of hope & freedom....if we weren't you and I wouldn't be having this conversation. But what if they don't follow our ways once we've gone to war with them (ie Iraq)? Do we stay until we've killed all of those who disagree with the opportunity we've presented?

I still think I am apples-to-apples on this one. If I really try hard, I can see their view (but I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT):

We tell them that they can/cannot develop weapons, etc...and we impose sanctions when they don't follow our orders. They see that as an act of terror on them.

Basically, I wish we'd quit fucking around in Iraq, start dropping MOAB's like a MOFO and give them something to be scared of. "shock and awe" turned into "meh and bleh" in my opinion. And I blame both parties for being pussies on this issue.

Since you are all about flipping the scenarios around, do it with Iran and us. Iran invades us and tells us that we can no longer produce nuclear weapons, you wouldn't see that as an act of terrorism? Not saying we shouldnt do it, but you have to look at it both ways just like you did before

And regarding the solution to win a war, like previously said the two ways to win a war are if both sides want peace, or all of one side dies, or is threatened with death. The problem is, they dont give a shit if they die. The greatest glory they can recieve in thier lives is to kill us, and die doing it. So its either leave and say fuck it, or genocide and kill them all.

[XJHEAD]

So anyways, St. Peter is working at the Pearly gates and along comes a black man. He asks him his name and what he has done with his life. He responds my name is Barack Obama and I was the first black US president. St Peter says no shit, when did this happen? Obama replies about 10 minutes ago.

[DaveH]

XJHEAD;221458 wrote:
So anyways, St. Peter is working at the Pearly gates and along comes a black man. He asks him his name and what he has done with his life. He responds my name is Barack Obama and I was the first black US president. St Peter says no shit, when did this happen? Obama replies about 10 minutes ago.

Thats funny stuff right there...

[Guest]

^^^ With a very real possibility of coming true.

[harm]

reminded me of something i'd seen on a t-shirt..

voting methods

[Jim]

GarageAlchemist;221442 wrote:
Since you are all about flipping the scenarios around, do it with Iran and us. Iran invades us and tells us that we can no longer produce nuclear weapons, you wouldn't see that as an act of terrorism? Not saying we shouldnt do it, but you have to look at it both ways just like you did before

And regarding the solution to win a war, like previously said the two ways to win a war are if both sides want peace, or all of one side dies, or is threatened with death. The problem is, they dont give a shit if they die. The greatest glory they can recieve in thier lives is to kill us, and die doing it. So its either leave and say fuck it, or genocide and kill them all.

There is a VERY VERY small portion of extremists compared to the total number of Muslim people that actually feel this way. Look at Pakistan, where exremists have been hunted by the people and nearly all support for any Jihadist movement has been eliminated.

[Guest]

Jim;221536 wrote:
There is a VERY VERY small portion of extremists compared to the total number of Muslim people that actually feel this way. Look at Pakistan, where exremists have been hunted by the people and nearly all support for any Jihadist movement has been eliminated.

Try telling that to Rex. Apparently to him, every single Muslim hates us and needs to exterminated.

[thrash]

There is a lot of sympathy towards terrorists, jihad, etc, amongst "moderate" muslims.

While it is certainly true that only a small percentage of muslims are actually blowing shit up, what is disturbing is how few of them will condemn Hamas or other extremist groups. The fact of the matter is that it's truly hard to get a "read" on the silent majority. So many of these people are being recruited and trained through normal mosques using prominent leaders that it's hard to imagine more moderate muslims don't know about it.

Even so called "moderate" muslims in the US, when polled, suggest in alarming numbers that they'd like to see the US constitution revoked and Sharia law instituted. CAIR and wackos like Keith Ellison (fuck you again, Minnesota!) are onboard with that sentiment, btw.

I'm not sure I'd mention Pakistan as some gleaming beacon of Muslim reasonableness. Our best guess is that Bin Laden is hiding out in Pakistan right now. Who's protecting him there?

[Jim]

thrash;221583 wrote:
There is a lot of sympathy towards terrorists, jihad, etc, amongst "moderate" muslims.

While it is certainly true that only a small percentage of muslims are actually blowing shit up, what is disturbing is how few of them will condemn Hamas or other extremist groups. The fact of the matter is that it's truly hard to get a "read" on the silent majority. So many of these people are being recruited and trained through normal mosques using prominent leaders that it's hard to imagine more moderate muslims don't know about it.

Even so called "moderate" muslims in the US, when polled, suggest in alarming numbers that they'd like to see the US constitution revoked and Sharia law instituted. CAIR and wackos like Keith Ellison (fuck you again, Minnesota!) are onboard with that sentiment, btw.

I'm not sure I'd mention Pakistan as some gleaming beacon of Muslim reasonableness. Our best guess is that Bin Laden is hiding out in Pakistan right now. Who's protecting him there?

After the assasination of benazir bhutto, theres little support for extremeist groups by the people.

[thrash]

That's encouraging to hear regarding pakistan, but it doesn't explain Palestine, CAIR, or "moderate" muslim populations anywhere else in the world.

I've got a lot I could say here but it's kind of OT. I'll close with the following two points:

• pretending that hardcore Islamic societies can mesh well with western style individual freedoms, and that there isn't a tendency towards barbarism and violence is a monumental head-in-the-sand act

• it is surprising to me how vigorously the left tries to tiptoe around offending Muslim "culture" in Mid-east/mid-asian nations with totally barbaric laws and customs. It's strange to see progressives defending any leader or culture where:
  -- women who are raped get put in prison for being promiscuous
  -- homosexuals are killed
  -- the president denies that homosexuality exists in his country
  -- young girls have their genitals mutilated
  -- women are not allowed to drive, be seen in public with other men, etc

Apparently the left thinks this stuff is OK as long as it's not a white republican committing the acts? Or that any foreign political leader opposed to GWB is a good guy?

Anyway, back on topic: Could Obama be the anti-christ? He's wildly loved by the media, he's got kind of a strange background, he promises all things to all people, he came out of nowhere into political prominence...

Discuss

[SmitEvo]

I was thinking the same thing about Obama.....it is the end of the world.

[Jim]

thrash;221589 wrote:
That's encouraging to hear regarding pakistan, but it doesn't explain Palestine, CAIR, or "moderate" muslim populations anywhere else in the world.

I've got a lot I could say here but it's kind of OT. I'll close with the following two points:

• pretending that hardcore Islamic societies can mesh well with western style individual freedoms, and that there isn't a tendency towards barbarism and violence is a monumental head-in-the-sand act

• it is surprising to me how vigorously the left tries to tiptoe around offending Muslim "culture" in Mid-east/mid-asian nations with totally barbaric laws and customs. It's strange to see progressives defending any leader or culture where:
  -- women who are raped get put in prison for being promiscuous
  -- homosexuals are killed
  -- the president denies that homosexuality exists in his country
  -- young girls have their genitals mutilated
  -- women are not allowed to drive, be seen in public with other men, etc

Apparently the left thinks this stuff is OK as long as it's not a white republican committing the acts? Or that any foreign political leader opposed to GWB is a good guy?

Anyway, back on topic: Could Obama be the anti-christ? He's wildly loved by the media, he's got kind of a strange background, he promises all things to all people, he came out of nowhere into political prominence...

Discuss

The whole israeli-palestine shit is ridiculous, on both sides IMO, I have a hard time believing one side is "better" then the other because they both commit atrocities.

Your describing what sounds like hardcore taliban-ish practices (and your specific references to Iran), which are def. not the norm in all islamic society. I doubt you'll find anybody that thinks ahmadinejad (and his policies) is a good guy, however, the policies of particular dictators and extremists should not be used to classify an entire religion or population.

Ok, so if we can agree that Isreali-Palestine shit that has been goign on for 2000 years is hopeless, that leaves us with:

Iran
Taliban / Talibanish style Extremists

Then take into consideration:

SE Asian Countires - Indonesia, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Phillipines (Where islam has been integrated and practiced alongside other religions for hundreds of years)

China's large muslim population

Pro-Western policies of oil exporting countries and other US allies - Egypt, UAE, Saudi Arabia

Easter European Countires

---

Its strange to group normal islamic people in with the extremists, becuase for the most part, muslims across the world do not directly clash in ideological values with westerners. Look at how SE asian countries have adapted islam to fit thier needs (with a more liberal view), and how the oil exporting countires bend the values of thier religion to be the ultimate consumers.

[Guest]

thrash;221589 wrote:
-- young girls have their genitals mutilated

This was one of the only issues I had with your last post...that and Obama being the anti-christ...he may be left wing, but anti-christ is pushing it IMO.

I'm assuming you are speaking of "female circumcision" in which case the hood of the clitoris is removed...often leading to way more problems than it's worth including decreased sexual pleasure.

One could make the argument that 90% of all young boys in this country are mutilated as well by having male circumcision performed....which results in....decreased sexual pleasure.

[thrash]

In Malaysia christians who attempt to proseltyze are killed by the government. Not secretly -- it's the law. Christian missionaries who go to malaysia have to jump through a bunch of hoops and have a solid cover story.

The FGM I was referring to was in Egypt. Should you be interested, you can read "Woman at Point Zero", written by an egyptian prostitute who talked about the structural mysoginy in that society.

That brings us to Saudi Arabia. If SA wasn't an important oil ally and foothold int he middle east, we'd have bombed them into the stone age. Where do you think OBL is from? Where do you think a huge chunk of terrorist financing comes from? Where do you think Wahhabiism has its powerbase concentrated? How is women's rights in Saudi Arabia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia

the Saudi government is the ninth most authoritarian regime in the world
...
The Saudi legal system prescribes capital punishment or corporal punishment, including amputations of hands and feet for certain crimes such as murder, robbery, rape, drug smuggling, homosexual activity, and adultery. The courts may impose less severe punishments, such as floggings, for less serious crimes against public morality such as drunkenness.[13] Murder, accidental death and bodily harm are open to punishment from the victim's family. Retribution may be sought in kind or through blood money. The blood money payable for a woman's accidental death is half as much as that for a man.[14] The main reason for this is that, according to Islamic law, men are expected to be providers for their families and therefore are expected to earn more money in their lifetimes. The blood money from a man would be expected to sustain his family, for at least a short time. Honor killings are also not punished as severely as murder. This generally stems from the fact that honor killings are within a family, and done to compensate for some dishonorable act committed
...
Saudi Arabia is also the only country in the world where women are banned from driving on public roads
...
The Government views its interpretation of Islamic law as its sole source of guidance on human rights.
...
A Saudi blogger, Fouad al-Farhan, was jailed for five months in solitary confinement in December, 2007, without charges, after criticizing Saudi religious, business and media figures

I can't beleive someone would defend the Shar'ia based legal system in Saudi Arabia?

[thrash]

tjamz;221593 wrote:
Obama being the anti-christ...he may be left wing, but anti-christ is pushing it IMO.

Well, i'm just throwing it out there. He's loved by the media and by people, and he came out of nowhere. It has little to do with his policies, although it's clear he think's hes going to transform the US and the world. He's acting like a shoe-in for the presidency. It looks like other people already had the same idea:

http://barackobamaantichrist.blogspot.com/

I'm assuming you are speaking of "female circumcision" in which case the hood of the clitoris is removed...often leading to way more problems than it's worth including decreased sexual pleasure.

One could make the argument that 90% of all young boys in this country are mutilated as well by having male circumcision performed....which results in....decreased sexual pleasure.

Absolutely -- I was referring to FGM. The point you bring up is a fair one regarding male circumcision in the US.

I'd respond by saying that it is losing favor in the US (we didn't do it to our son, btw), it happens way less than 90% of the time now, and that unlike FGM, male circumcision is done on infants, not near-adolescent girls.

I think you also have to look at it in a cultural context: Women are "circumcised" as a way to subjugate them -- they're thought of as dirty creatures undeserving of pleasure. With boys in the US circumcision is a relatively recent (1950s, iirc) thing, and at the time it was thought that it was painelss for the baby and had distinct hygeine benefits. Now as those opinions are falling out of favor, so too is the practice.

If you didn't take issue with the other points in my post, I think that says more than the rebuttal you had to my FGM comment does.

[thrash]

Oh, speaking of "moderate" pakistan and western compatibility:

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\06\08\story_8-6-2008_pg7_14

Pakistan will ask the European Union countries to amend laws regarding freedom of expression in order to prevent offensive incidents such as the printing of blasphemous caricatures of Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) and the production of an anti-Islam film by a Dutch legislator, sources in the Interior Ministry told Daily Times on Saturday.
...
They said that the delegation would also tell the EU that if such acts against Islam are not controlled, more attacks on the EU diplomatic missions abroad could not be ruled out.

So yeah. "Do away with freedom of expression... or else".

[Jim]

thrash;221598 wrote:
Oh, speaking of "moderate" pakistan and western compatibility:

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\06\08\story_8-6-2008_pg7_14

So yeah. "Do away with freedom of expression... or else".

There's a big difference between the moderate people, and the leaders in power (illegitimacy of musharraf); also theres alot more to that story then that article provides.