Aug 6&7 Street Legal Times
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Im basing my facts off hands on experience though not w/ what has been said on internet forums. W/ some of the information i have seen people post on forums i would never take what anyone said as valuable information unless there were a proven good source. 90% of the time the guy posting information is dumber then the people reading it, because it seems everyone is a know it all when it comes to internet forums.
My $.02
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If you want something thats gonna spool quick and still be capable of 500hp i'd get into the GT30BB line.
I'd run a 60-1 but only if it was a low boost setup as 60-1 make nice power on low boost but they become drastically inefficient on higher boost and thats where the larger GT series turbo's will take over w/ the quicker spool up and much more power than a 60-1.
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PSI2HI wrote:
Whoops made a typo and just had to edit it and Nate you didn't even catch it @ the bottom where i typed if i was building a street machine i wouldn't even look @ anything smallker then i 16G, whoops typo!Now on the other hand a 20G is a pretty small turbo for a STI, you got 2.5L of disp to deal w/ even a 50 trim i would consider small for that application.
Damnit, I missed a grammar error! I was paying more attention to your narrative.
tjamz wrote:
the flip side of that is that the suby community is seeing faster times out of the Green or Red series than they are w/ SC61's. The GT35R is pretty well regarded by them BUT they spool slower than Reds and definately slower than greens and therefore are usually only used on drag-only type applications whereas the Green & Red are often used in Auto-x and Roadcourse apps. Like I said, not trying to start a pissing match here, just trying to get some additional insight.There is no flip side.
You can't build a car to be great at both drag racing and Auto-X. You can make one to do ok at both, or great at one or the other. I am so sick of hearing people whine about turbo spooling, if you want a little turbo that spools instantly when driving around the street, then don't whine when your car is slow. Same goes for the guy that wants to be fast at the drag strip, don't whine when your turbo doesn't spool at idle. I don't hear as many as the 2nd type of whiners, but it happens. An engine is simply an air pump, more air you put through, the more power you get out(along with more fuel), end of story.
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Turbos that don't spool at idle just need antilag or a two step to help them along, that is all.
Fast spool + wicked fast car = not gonna happen unless it's a v8.
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91nbtsi wrote:
There is no flip side.You can't build a car to be great at both drag racing and Auto-X. You can make one to do ok at both, or great at one or the other. I am so sick of hearing people whine about turbo spooling, if you want a little turbo that spools instantly when driving around the street, then don't whine when your car is slow. Same goes for the guy that wants to be fast at the drag strip, don't whine when your turbo doesn't spool at idle. I don't hear as many as the 2nd type of whiners, but it happens. An engine is simply an air pump, more air you put through, the more power you get out(along with more fuel), end of story.
You are 100% correct, but could the argument not be made that if a Green can get you 11's and maybe even 10's, have minimal lag AND be a reasonable daily driver on a car that is pretty much built from the factory for road course/auto-x, that it would be a good choice for someone who isn't building a drag specific car, but rather something that will do well (not great, but decent) in all avenues of personal use and race?
I agree that larger turbos will make more power at lower boost, the STi block has been proven to withstand 25psi on a bone stock bottom end and last for quite a while, heck my bottom end has been exposed to 24psi+ several times w/ no problems (other than 1 blown exhaust gasket). All I'm saying is that I understand why people get larger turbos when they are going for a racing type application, but it seems noone will even consider a smaller turbo w/ higher boost and less lag as a compromise, even if that compromise can yield (sometimes) similar results at the strip.
To summarize, yes a big turbo is great for dragracing, but I drag race my car less than 1% of the time, therefore a "small" green or red seems like the logical choice.
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tjamz wrote:
You are 100% correct, but could the argument not be made that if a Green can get you 11's and maybe even 10's, have minimal lag AND be a reasonable daily driver on a car that is pretty much built from the factory for road course/auto-x, that it would be a good choice for someone who isn't building a drag specific car, but rather something that will do well (not great, but decent) in all avenues of personal use and race?I agree that larger turbos will make more power at lower boost, the STi block has been proven to withstand 25psi on a bone stock bottom end and last for quite a while, heck my bottom end has been exposed to 24psi+ several times w/ no problems (other than 1 blown exhaust gasket). All I'm saying is that I understand why people get larger turbos when they are going for a racing type application, but it seems noone will even consider a smaller turbo w/ higher boost and less lag as a compromise, even if that compromise can yield (sometimes) similar results at the strip.
To summarize, yes a big turbo is great for dragracing, but I drag race my car less than 1% of the time, therefore a "small" green or red seems like the logical choice.
Yes, you have a good argument. BUT, for myself, and most others on this board, the car is just never fast enough!! Maybe you could put a 50trim(green) on your car, and call it good, I would not be able to do that. I am pretty sure I am going to get another DSM, I miss going fast. It will have a really big turbo, and really high boost;) Maybe I will get yours and Kark's approval to use race gas in even!
Basically, it all depends on what you want out of your car. I started playing with smaller turbos, 60trims;) Just kept moving up.
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91nbtsi wrote:
Yes, you have a good argument. BUT, for myself, and most others on this board, the car is just never fast enough!! Maybe you could put a 50trim(green) on your car, and call it good, I would not be able to do that. I am pretty sure I am going to get another DSM, I miss going fast. It will have a really big turbo, and really high boost;) Maybe I will get yours and Kark's approval to use race gas in even!Basically, it all depends on what you want out of your car. I started playing with smaller turbos, 60trims;) Just kept moving up.
I'm in the same boat as Nate, you'll notice that the turbo in my car keeps getting larger every year.
DaveH
'94 Supra- 7.77 @ 176mph -
Hahaha. Nice Dave.
Bigger = better right?
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91nbtsi wrote:
Maybe I will get yours and Kark's approval to use race gas in even!I've always been a fan of race gas, I run 111 whenever I'm at the track and usually run a blend of 111 and 92 the rest of the time.
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maybe I too will someday build a car that is designed to be a track monster, until then I will work at making my car as fast as it can be with the current parts.
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Turbo5Oh wrote:
you mean not everyones car is at full boost at 2700rpm? boy that must suck!
(just had to rub it in a little)p.s. race gas is for girls
Yeah but also consider turbo 4 cylinders are revving out to 8k, 9k and even higher. We arent seeing full boost until 5k.. but that leaves us 3-4k of power range.
Yeah a v8 spools faster, but it wont rev out as much either, when it comes down to it, a turbo 4 cylinder and a turbo v8 have about the same 3-4k power range.
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tjamz wrote:
I've always been a fan of race gas, I run 111 whenever I'm at the track and usually run a blend of 111 and 92 the rest of the time.I swear you and Kark were saying race gas was a waste of time...see below:
STiSchucky wrote:
some gay time like 13.4.im never running race gas again. overrated shit.
tjamz wrote:
I've said that before too..........That is what I thought
Oh, and I consider 111 piss, C16 is race gas! Just kidding, but it is a world of difference between the two. I will never use 110 or 111 or whatever again, just the really expensive stuff that made my car run way better.Turbo5Oh wrote:
you mean not everyones car is at full boost at 2700rpm? boy that must suck!
(just had to rub it in a little)p.s. race gas is for girls
Schell, I would hope your car spools then because you only get to rev to what, 5500? heh.
You are just mad because your block would split in half if you tried to run enough boost that you needed race fuel
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Chuck, your missing the major point here of what i said pages ago especially regarding the FP Red, that turbo is a 60-1 based turbo they do not spoool that quickly, the Garrett GT30 BB series turbo's A. Spool faster, and B. Make more power than a 60-1 will unless you are running low boost levels say 15 psi or less.
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Nate..on the race gas thing, I said that the first time I ran, but at the time I was only running a boost controller and exhaust and thought I wasn't gaining anything from the race gas (which I probably wasn't, car wasn't knocking, I was only running 16psi on stock turbo, etc...) Once I stepped up to a larger turbo (though still small by your guys standards) and got on the dyno I realized that the diff between 111 and 92 in regards to safe power was about...oh....45 whp. I became a believer after that.
Nick T.: Yes, the Red is BASED on the 60-1, but the current version of the Red designed & flanged for the WRX/STi spools ages before a traditional 60-1 would. They are currently ball bearing and full boost is achieved by ~4300 RPM on a 2.0 Liter and ~3900 RPM on a 2.5 Liter.
Schell: I agree, torque is nice....thats why I have a suby...heh
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On the topic............ Best I could run on pump gas on saturday was a 12.0 @ 114 w/ a 1.66 60ft. Then on sunday on the leaded 111 gas and more boost, best I could run was a 11.59 @ 121 w/ a 1.70 60 ft. Note that there had been NO tuning done before the drags at all. So I had to do some on the track. But with the hot ass weather I was always getting knock in 4th gear, sometimes even 3rd gear.
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