Diesel Fuel Milage Discussion
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On a different episode they drove an Audi A8 4.0 TDI 800 miles on a single tank of gas.
That is Audi's flagship vehicle, full time AWD, leather everything, heated back seats, etc etc. the 4.0 TDI has more torque than half of the trucks Detroit is making and i had one blow past me on the Autobahn @ 150mph+ like i was standing still (I was going 130mph or so and it just dusted me).
German diesel technology is shit-hot. The 2 liter NON turbo E46 BMW wagon I rented was able to sustain 130mph cruising no problem.
On most BMWs now the diesel version is within 1-sec of the 0-60 time of the gas version.. i.e. the 535d is just a hair off the 535i's performance.
BMW and Audi are bringing diesel engines to the USA in 2009.
The main issue now is that US gas prices have plummeted again and diesel prices haven't... so the impetus is really gone for a lot of the diesel advantage.
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thrash;247617 wrote:
On a different episode they drove an Audi A8 4.0 TDI 800 miles on a single tank of gas.Yeah, i saw that episode also. And audi is doing the diesel R8 also....
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yeah but none of the vehicles is a 20mph->50mpg improvement in the same vehicle just by swapping engines.
http://www.vw.com/jetta/completespecs/en/us/#/show_all
The factory sticker on 2009 jettas shows the gas engines at 20/29 and the TDI at 30/41. So it's about 50% better in town and about 35% better on the highway.
The initial acquisition cost is higher, but assuming a 1.80 vs. 2.80 price split, the jetta TDI is basically a "break even" vehicle. IOW, the higher cost of diesel makes it a wash.
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I believe that all 3 vehicles that they tested there got higher than they were rated for. The Jag was rated at 35 mpg, and got 53 without trying. The Polo was rated at 70 mpg and got 80 being conservative, and i think the subaru was rated at 50 and got 62. I would guess that a gas AWD outback wouldn't get more than 30 so that is quite an improvement even at 50.
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yeah, as an owner of 2 80s BMWs with the "USA 5mph Impact Bumpers" i am bitterly aware of the differences between Euro and US spec german cars
that said, if the discussion is about how well they'll do here, it's worth looking at the US-spec versions, don't you agree?
I think the jetta actually does better than 41mpg in real-world highway usage, so that's a point in its favor.
Unfortuneately, while Audi is bringing a TDI into the USA A4 in the near future, their transmission strategy has gone completely stupid. You cannot get a manual transmission in the A4 wagon, and the S4 won't be offered in wagon form any more. The TDI they are bringing over is the 3.0 TDI which is only going to get around 37 highway for about a $5k price bump over the normal A4. TDIs will also be automatic only, most likely.
BMW may do a better job of bringing over a kick-ass turbo diesel car in the near future.
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3_Series;247628 wrote:
Diesel may have the mileage advantage, but gas = more fun to drive, at least if you like revs.When comparing the two you either get torque or revs, but not both.
I dunno, with my programmer on the 85hp tune my truck is around 300 rwhp and 640 rwtq. It's pretty fun to drive.
:icon_rr:
DaveH
'94 Supra- 7.77 @ 176mph -
DaveH;247636 wrote:
I dunno, with my programmer on the 85hp tune my truck is around 300 rwhp and 640 rwtq. It's pretty fun to drive.:icon_rr:
agreed....
I like living in the realm where 100hp+ injectors and oversize tires help my MPG
I pull 20-22mpg in a 3/4 ton, 4wd on I-state @ 80mph.......and still give it to the gassers in the anus
with DDP injectors, fuel plate, and other goodies
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KA-T_240;247639 wrote:
^lol!Zac..... you need a bigger turbo on that thing
I don't think the gassers would appreciate even deeper penetration, haha
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but seriously it needs something bigger badly, after the injector install i had to pull a bunch of fuel out of the pump because boost and especially EGT's were crazy on the stocker....even with fuel backed off i can still bury the 1600* pyro within 5 seconds
give me a nice phatshaft 62-14 and it would be super happy
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There are two main reasons we don't get euro-spec vehicles in the US.
- Shitty gas
- Shitty laws
The 2nd point really encompasses a lot of things.. like the fact that each imported powertrain variant (i.e. engine blah + transmission foo) must be independantly tested for EPA compliance... at some 6 digit cost to the manufacturuer. Each chassis has to be crash tested, and the tests are different.
There are some rules like the car has to have a catalytic converter... no matter how clean it runs if you sniff it.. or that it needs air-injection and EGR systems... no matter how clean the engine runs.
In general, to comply with US emissions standards and bad US gas you lose a little fuel economy and a little horsepower. Then you add in all the vehicle weight... USA spec cars are very heavily optioned whe nthey make it over here, since you have to justify a higher price that was forced on you via the extra stuff you have to go through to get the car legally sellable here.
I drove a year 2004 BMW with no cruise control when i was in germany. And i think it had crank windows in the back but power windows in the front. (This was a common setup on Euro-spec BMWs to save cost).
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In a diesel, the added 300lbs(saftey, cruise, AC, power window will do nothing to the fuel economy, and it should be still just as fast. Diesels love to do work!
You get shitty diesel filling up at gas stations. Go to truck stops and get your diesel where they actually sell lots of it.
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