New to Fargo Argument
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toxshox wrote:
Ok dude.. chill...(1) I am talking about sinking the same amount of money into a WRX as a High horse Civic. Talkin 12k+ in mods on the civic. 500 whp can be done and has been done many times. Surf on done to the WRX forums sometime and you will find out what I am talking about.
(2) Does it matter that a wrx has 500 hp...no...because it gets traction right away anyway (well kinda...pushin 500 in any car is hard to have traction). You won't even need 500 whp to beat a 500 whp civic... different ball game as far as drivetrain. Speaking of drivetrain. Kaaz gears are only $3000 for the wrx 5 speed. They would work better in a drag event or autocross event anyway.
(3) At the end of it all...when the cars are sitting side by side...which one can you drive to the drag track, race, and drive to an autoX event, race and drive home without any modifications in-between?
Yes, you have accessport, which is very handy but not self tunable. You need to download maps off the internet and can't tweak/modify anything specific for your setup/elevation/vehicle/fuel grade/etc. Yes, that setup is good for 224 whp (at least according to Cobb on THEIR dyno)
(1) I think you've been reading cardomain too much (another big gripe of mine, damn people lie about their HP on that site). Show me a 500 whp wrx on the stock ej20 block (internals can be upgraded, thats fine, block still won't hold up.) Surf the WRX forums? I live on the subaru forums, nasioc, wrxhackers, alt.autos.subaru, etc...
(2) [color=Black]You are right AWD does get you out of the hole pretty fricken fast, but you need to also factor in a lot of other things like weight, WRX weighs in at 3085 lbs stock and a GSR weighs in at 2650 according to Car & Driver. 400 lbs is 4/10 of a second....in other words an eternity in drag racing. The other thing you need to factor in is the price of Honda parts vs. Subaru parts. I'm willing to bet you can get more parts for the money if you buy honda parts. That and spending the extra $3000 for a gearset on a WRX isn't bad, but you need to figure that it will be NEEDED if you want to make sick HP. Nick (GSR) is on his stock tranny....so thats $3k less you have to spend on your car to get to 500whp...if I could get to 500whp for $9k I would have gone that route.
color=Blue Both. Its been done before. Haven't you auto-x'd your gsr Nick? (I might be wrong there about Nick autocrossing.) Even if he (nick) hasn't I've seen GSR's at both type of events and their owners have indicated that they do both.
Please send me a link of someone (anyone) who has a dyno chart to prove that they have gone 500whp in a wrx w/ a USDM EJ20 (preferably on a Dynojet or Mustang Dyno.) 500whp in a EJ25 is hard enough to do while still being safe. I would think that TXS/Vishnu/Element Tuning/Cobb/APS/Easy Street or someone would have one on their site if there were LOTS of them out there.
The thing that sucks is that I really hate saying bad shit about Subarus, but you are making me point out any/all flaws just to disprove your claims. I love my suby and there is no way I'd switch to a different car, I just realize the limitations of a WRX and know pretty well what can/can't be done for "X" amount of dollars
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99slowGSX wrote:
EVO>STi Eclipse>WRXThat says it all.....
What is the fastest time an Evo has run in the 1/4 (I have no clue)? Fastest WRX is 8.85 @ 147.
Oh...and which of those has won more rally races in WRC the past few years? I'll give you a hint...its the one that has a paint called WRC Blue.
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tjamz wrote:
What is the fastest time an Evo has run in the 1/4 (I have no clue)? Fastest WRX is 8.85 @ 147.just to be a dick and not let this thread die.............
Skyline>EVO>STi Eclipse>WRX
8.273 @ 167.76 mph Ex Vi Termini and thats only @ about 2/3rds throttle
and for all you people who say it doesnt count because they are not over here, motorex, motherfuckers! lol j/k
argue on.
McAdam
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McAdam wrote:
just to be a dick and not let this thread die.............Skyline>EVO>STi Eclipse>WRX
8.273 @ 167.76 mph Ex Vi Termini and thats only @ about 2/3rds throttle
and for all you people who say it doesnt count because they are not over here, motorex, motherfuckers! lol j/k
argue on.
McAdam
ummm....good luck w/ Motorex
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um who races 2/3rds throttle?
when i had my first camaro i ran a 99 cobra. him and all his buddies where hypin his car up, but when we ran it was dead even. i asked what happened, and he said " i wanted it to be a close race, so i didnt push it hard" fuckin fool.
off topic, but that same kid is now in jail and says he is goin to gun my brother down. :rolleyes: -
eh, if you go to the site, it explains that they are still getting the motor sorted out and they have the rev limiter set to 10.5Krpm. the engine, according to them, is good for about 13.5K, I guess 2/3rds throttle isnt the word, 2/3rds power potential.
If I had $30K to blow on a car, Id go to motorex and get me an R32 GTR, screw new cars.
McAdam
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McAdam wrote:
eh, if you go to the site, it explains that they are still getting the motor sorted out and they have the rev limiter set to 10.5Krpm. the engine, according to them, is good for about 13.5K, I guess 2/3rds throttle isnt the word, 2/3rds power potential.If I had $30K to blow on a car, Id go to motorex and get me an R32 GTR, screw new cars.
McAdam
What I meant was good luck getting anything from Motorex, they are pretty much known as scam artists and aren't worth the bandwidth they waste to have a website.
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honestly, thats the first time I've EVER heard of Motorex being scam artists. Some may not like the work they do or how they do it, but they always get their parts and they always deliver the car. sometimes a little late or what not, but it still gets delivered.
now, if you want to see a scam artist, look up night7sevyn racing, that guy is a tool.
McAdam
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McAdam wrote:
honestly, thats the first time I've EVER heard of Motorex being scam artists. Some may not like the work they do or how they do it, but they always get their parts and they always deliver the car. sometimes a little late or what not, but it still gets delivered.now, if you want to see a scam artist, look up night7sevyn racing, that guy is a tool.
McAdam
ummm....I've never heard anything good about Motorex in the past few years. Brett (dangler) knows more about them as he was looking into getting a skyline from them. Basically they get the customers money but never deliver the cars. I dunno who you've talked to, but that was basically what I'd heard on virtually every car forum.
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is it just me, or have I turned into an asshole lately? Hope its not just me
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thanks nate. I feel better now
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HOLY CRAP! I had no idea. Of course, Ive been enconsed (sp?) in the Z car world and the 240SX world for quite some time. Havent been on FreshAlloy for QUITE a while. I did not know they had turned into shady bastards.
Although, once Sean left, I kind of had a feeling it would have gone downhill. Damn, thanks for the update....
I wonder how hard it would be to bring one through Canada with thier 15yr rule?
McAdam
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R32's should be easy enough. Once they're legal in canada they are pretty much legal here (they have to be licensed in canada for 6 months first I think)
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tjamz wrote:
A. Yes, you have accessport, which is very handy but not self tunable. You need to download maps off the internet and can't tweak/modify anything specific for your setup/elevation/vehicle/fuel grade/etc. Yes, that setup is good for 224 whp (at least according to Cobb on THEIR dyno)B. I think you've been reading cardomain too much (another big gripe of mine, damn people lie about their HP on that site). Show me a 500 whp wrx on the stock ej20 block (internals can be upgraded, thats fine, block still won't hold up.)
C. The other thing you need to factor in is the price of Honda parts vs. Subaru parts. I'm willing to bet you can get more parts for the money if you buy honda parts.
D. Both. Its been done before. Haven't you auto-x'd your gsr Nick? (I might be wrong there about Nick autocrossing.) Even if he (nick) hasn't I've seen GSR's at both type of events and their owners have indicated that they do both.
E. Please send me a link of someone (anyone) who has a dyno chart to prove that they have gone 500whp in a wrx w/ a USDM EJ20 (preferably on a Dynojet or Mustang Dyno.) 500whp in a EJ25 is hard enough to do while still being safe. I would think that TXS/Vishnu/Element Tuning/Cobb/APS/Easy Street or someone would have one on their site if there were LOTS of them out there.
A. AccessTuner just came out that allows you to reprogram the Stock ECU to fix those little details.
B. Cardomain is not my style...cause people lie about everything on there...your right. I agree about the stock block and internals. The civic I was talking about doesn't have a stock block or internals either. I'm not talking about stock internals or bottom end for the wrx. EJ22 blocks with fully closed decks will hold more boost and they are just about free in junk yards.
C. Honda or Subaru parts are not that much different in price when you are buying aftermarket parts. That is unless you are attempting to get them from japan...then your screwed with Subaru...I don't know about honda. I have seen many different turbos in Subarus...not just the ones that are drop in replacements. So price...I don't know about that one....I will give you that arguement that honda aftermarket parts are very plentiful in this country.
D. Without changing tires or suspension settings? I find that hard to believe...at least hard to believe they did well at one of them. Most of those 500 hp club guys have to run slicks which barely leave any room for the suspension to move...and the rear is usually set fully stiff...hmm...sounds like problems on the autoX track.
E. Most of the WRX's that make big numbers are over in Australia. That's because they have been popular over there as tuner cars for many years and they are relatively new here. Here is a quote from turbo magazine that helps explain what I am talking about. Some of the sites have dyno sheets on them.
"Tony Rigoli Performance has power tuned a number of mean Impreza WRXs in its native Australia, generating numbers like 551, 521 and 499 whp on strictly street-going versions. So the ESX package has a stout engine program behind it."
http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0301tur_ej20/Tony Rigoli Performance tuned 542 whp wagon at
http://www.rigoliracing.com.au/466hpwrx.html
Old school body...same engine as new age wrx521 whp on dyno at
http://www.rigoliracing.com.au/mrwrx.html
not street drivable...but still over 500whpOf course ESX tuned by Tony...505 whp
http://www.rigoliracing.com.au/esx_wrx.htmlEx Vi Termini 300kw WRX GC8 flavor
http://www.exvitermini.com/gc8specs.htm
Vid 300kw
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No one is going to get a skyline around here so that is solved. Evos on average are faster than STi's in the quarter and if i remember correctly there is a 2g running in the 8's just like the WRX. All in all Tjamz is a pimp and Mcadam is not..........Game Over
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Ok, now that we've both agreed that the USDM EJ20 will break unless you sleeve it or swap it to the EJ22 we're fine. The way you worded it before sounded like you can take an EJ20 and bolt on a big turbo and supporting mods and get to 500 WHP. Swapping in an EJ22 is always the best route for huge power in a subaru, friggen motor is awesome and can handle insane amounts of boost.
To address the points that I think need addressing:
C. Disagree with you there. I've owned both and Honda parts are definately cheaper. The gap has closed a little though, not quite as bad as it was a couple years ago.
D. I change my tires and would change my suspension settings from Auto-x to Drags as well.
E. Thanks for the links. But those were not attained from an inertia dyno. Not trying to nit pick here and not taking away from any of those cars, but the same car on an inertia dyno would most likely not produce that high of numbers.
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