Exhaust Ticket Response from Fargo PD
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i think that law is bullshit, just look at the stock vettes or the stock SRT4s those arent going to pass any db test. all it is is cops not likeing the import generation of cars. it sucks but what can we do? just bitch about it thats about it. :mad:
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B18C1Hatch wrote:
i think that law is bullshit, just look at the stock vettes or the stock SRT4s those arent going to pass any db test. all it is is cops not likeing the import generation of cars. it sucks but what can we do? just bitch about it thats about it. :mad:It's not because they dont like the "import generation" its that there are too many idiots and assholes that drive imports that ruin it for everyone else. If all those idiots drove Jeep's instead, they'd be finding more ways to pull over those people and check them. It's just like the drunk driving checkpoints. It's annoying as hell to be stopped and bothered and it wouldn't happen if it wasn't for the idiots that drive drunk.
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n2o wrote:
If all those idiots drove Jeep's instead, they'd be finding more ways to pull over those people and check them.:mad: so that would mean i'm screwed no matter what i drive. but i agree with what you are saying.
but they should be pulling over all of the drivers that do stupid shit in there cars not just the cars with cans, or import cars, or loud trucks. if this new campaign(sp.) is for loud exhaust to be quited pull everyone over, if its for reckless driving pull everyone over. that is something that everybody should agree on even if you are someone who does stupid stuff.
me in my jeep i'll probably never get and exhaust ticket even thought its loud, i'd be more likely to get a ticket in my 240 no matter how loud the exhaust is.
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n2o wrote:
It's not because they dont like the "import generation" its that there are too many idiots and assholes that drive imports that ruin it for everyone else.It's always idiots that ruin it... little off topic but not really same thing happened with 3 wheelers... they got outlawed cause "IDIOTS" were hopping on them and not knowing how to drive them so they rolled them... I grew up with a 3 wheeler and I never had a problem with them cause i knew how to lean durning hard turning...
also "IDIOTS" are the one's that are caused all the media hype about personal watercraft also... the "IDIOTS" they were trying to avoid an oncoming boat by letting off the gas and trying to turn... how much common sence does it take see that water stops shooting out the back your not going to do anything but coast...
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Now I'm tempted to bring my Mustang or Probe to Fargo... My Probe has a powerflow muffler that is kind of deep and I also cut out the cat. The Mustang has headers, mid pipe -the cats and catback. If that doesn't make them mad I bet the noisey supercharger would, cuz I know you can hear that from more than 10 feet away.
Maby the cops there just don't like "fart pipes" and "farm exhaust"???
I personaly like the sound of Imports with good exhaust that actualy has a tone to it. -
Big-D wrote:
so me and a buddy were driving down 19th AV tonight, I was by the airport, and a cop came cruising up on me really fast and followed me until 45th before he pulled me over... and i was trying to keep it quiet like shifting below 2500 so the exhaust was not loud at all... he pulled me over and was like i pulled you over for your exhaust he said he could hear me from the airport and he was at university.... and we just asked him legitimate questions like whats the decibavel for exhaust and he said he didnt know... and he said it was raspy and crackly and it wasent it was a deep low tone... he gave me a fix it ticket and i told him i wasent going to fix it so he said he was just going to pull me over again sometime then i asked him if i got a silencer for it if that would work (for the fix it ticket then take it off)... and he said that would probably work...and like all the questions we asked them all they said was ohh i dont know im just doing my job we have just been getting allot of complaints lately... so the answer is I DONT KNOW IM JUST DOING MY JOB is all they can say. But i am going to contest this since they cant give me a straight answer.Good luck! Cops dont like fart cans. Dont take this the wrong way. But it looks like you have one.
Even if you get the ticket thrown out which I doubt it. Your still going to get picked on. I would pick a different muffler if I were you. Something thats more stockish.
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barthygt wrote:
Now I'm tempted to bring my Mustang or Probe to Fargo... My Probe has a powerflow muffler that is kind of deep and I also cut out the cat. The Mustang has headers, mid pipe -the cats and catback. If that doesn't make them mad I bet the noisey supercharger would, cuz I know you can hear that from more than 10 feet away.My '92 Probe has the same engine as yours, and it's a 5-speed. I've got headers, no cat, and a 3" Spintech muffler which does not stand out since it's not shiny and the tip is just a 3" piece of exhaust pipe. I have yet to get pulled over by the Fargo PD in the 3 years I've lived here. There's no way in hell I can drive my car so the exhaust sound blends in with other traffic. Even when I accelerate moderately and shift at 2,500 RPM it still probably stands out in a group of stock vehicles.
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Lucas (Legacy99) is the unabomber...just look at him sometime with his hooded sweatshirt up and his big round sunglasses, he's got Ted Kazynski written all over that look.
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Response from fargo police department:
Noise Complaints
There has been a recent increase in vehicles equipped with after market exhaust systems which are illegal under city ordinance. These illegal engine exhausts are sold throughout the city however are illegal after they are installed and driven on city streets. After numerous recent noise complaints the Fargo Police department and the Traffic Safety Unit will be focusing on noise related ordinances. These ordinances include; 8-0908 and 8-0317. The purpose of this increase awareness and enforcement is to gain compliance to these ordinances and address the concerns of citizens. Any questions about enforcement efforts in this area should be directed to Sgt. Michael Mitchell
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and my response to them:
Thank you for your response. I have included the two city ordinances that you referenced
8-0908. Mufflers required--Cutouts prohibited.--No person shall drive a motor vehicle on any
street or highway unless such motor vehicle is equipped with a muffler, together with any necessary
extensions, pipes or resonators, in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive
and unusual noise and annoying smoke. Such exhaust system shall operate to blend the exhaust noise
into the over-all vehicle noise. No person shall use a “muffler cutout”, “bypass” or similar device on any
motor vehicle upon the streets or highways in the city. The exhaust system shall not emit or produce a
sharp, popping or cracking sound, nor shall it emit or produce loud or explosive noises.
Source: 1965 Rev. Ord. 8-0908, 1553 (1973).
---and---
8-0317. Racing and exhibition driving on streets, alleys and public ways .--
A. No person shall engage in exhibition driving of any vehicle on a highway, street,
alley, sidewalk, public way, or any public or private parking lot or area within
the city of Fargo, nor shall any person engage in a speed competition, race,
drag race, acceleration contest, test of physical endurance, or exhibition of
speed or acceleration on any highway, street, alley, sidewalk, public way, or
any public or private parking lot or area within the city of Fargo, nor shall any
person in any manner participate in any such race, drag race, competition,
contest, or exhibition.
B. The following definitions shall apply to the interpretation and enforcement of this
ordinance:
- “Drag race” means the operation of two or more vehicles from
a point side by side at accelerating speeds in a competitive
attempt to outdistance each other; or the operation of one or
more vehicles over a common selected course, from the same
to the same point, for the purpose of comparing the relative
speeds or powers of acceleration of such vehicle or vehicles
within a certain distance or time limit.
- “Exhibition driving” means driving a vehicle in such a manner
that it creates or causes unnecessary engine noise, tire squeal,
skid or slide upon acceleration, braking or stopping; or that
causes the vehicle to unnecessarily turn abruptly or sway; or
driving and executing or attempting one or a series of
unnecessarily abrupt turns.
- “Race” means the use of one or more vehicles in an attempt to
outgain, outdistance, or to arrive at a given distance ahead of
another vehicle or vehicles; or the use of one or more vehicles
to willfully prevent another vehicle from passing the racing
vehicle or vehicles or to test the physical stamina or endurance
of the person or persons driving the vehicles over a long
distance driving route.
C. Nothing in this ordinance shall be construed as prohibiting drag racing,
exhibition driving, racing or similar events when carried out in an organized
manner on a track or other privately owned area specifically set aside and used
solely for such purposes by drivers of motor vehicles, including sn owmobiles.
Source: 1965 Rev. Ord. 8-0317, 1653 (1975).
Can you please point the part in there were it says that adding an aftermarket exhaust is unlawful? I agree that driving in a manner that causes excessive noise or is found to be racing or driving in a manner described under the exhibition driving portion is and should be a punishable offense. However, just because someone has changed to a different style of exhaust other than OEM should not automatically qualify said individual as having violated the law and/or city ordinances. If that is the case, nearly every car that is over 15 years old should be ticketed, as it is likely that they have changed their mufflers from the OEM (Ford/GM/Dodge/Honda/Etc...) due to rust or other defects to that of an aftermarket exhaust(Flowmaster for example) at a Muffler shop or other form of mechanics garage.
What I want to know is this: I no longer possess the factory exhaust that came with my car. I ordered and had installed an exhaust from a well known exhaust manufacturer who is listed as CARB (California Air Regulatory Board) legal for street use. It also has passed DOT standards. From what I can tell, it meets all of the above city ordinances. However from your document that you forwarded to me, it is illegal because it is aftermarket. If I drive my car on the streets of fargo (in a respectful manner...not exhibition/racing/etc), am I subject to a fine just for having this exhaust?
Thank you for your time today.
Chuck Schwan
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Chuck, If you have your car idling next to a stock exhaust equipped WRX, can you hear your car over the other one? If so, then it probably doesn't "blend the exhaust noise, into the overall vehicle noise", because you have already drown out the other car's sound. Just my observation.
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that may be the only thing argument they can make. However, it could be argued that the only noise that a car makes at idle at a stand still is through the exhaust therefore all exhaust noise counts as vehicle noise. Nowhere in there does it say that the noise has to be the same as stock, only that it must blend with the overall noise of the vehicle. If thats what they are going for, then define blend. Merriam-Webster defines it as: to prepare by thoroughly intermingling different varieties or grades. That doesn't really narrow down what they are looking for as by the nature of any exhaust it will blend with the cars noise as it IS the cars (primary) noise when not moving.
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what if I swapped a V8 into my subie and the resulting sound was no louder than a stock corvette (for example) but WAS louder than my WRX is normally. Would I be in violation of the exhaust law?
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tjamz wrote:
that may be the only thing argument they can make. However, it could be argued that the only noise that a car makes at idle at a stand still is through the exhaust therefore all exhaust noise counts as vehicle noise.
Until you listen to the air intake, the pulleys spinning, any ticking the motor makes....I just went and listened to my work vehicle('02 Windstar), and I couldn't even hear exhaust. Mainly intake and engine noises. -
tjamz wrote:
what if I swapped a V8 into my subie and the resulting sound was no louder than a stock corvette (for example) but WAS louder than my WRX is normally. Would I be in violation of the exhaust law?
Why would you want to do that and make a WRX fast?
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good points on both issues there Ethan. Still doesn't answer my question regarding if the swap made the car louder, should it be ticketed, even though it is the same level as other cars with a similar motor.
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btw, I'm enjoying this debate with Ethan, he always makes me think.
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