Dyno in Fargo?!?! Interested?!?
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94NDTA wrote:
No, I'm saying proper training in each area (I.E. FI, NA, Nitrous, etc, which they will receive from the program they undergo) will yeild pretty decent results without being brand specific.I 100% disagree. No 1 person can tell you how to tune a car if you have really no backround in the concept. @ this point its not a learning experience and i would hope you wouldn't be learning say forced induction tuning on someones vehicle they just invested $20k into the motor.
For say like your a DSM tuner on which those vehicles you can run a ton of timing now for say i bring in my Lexus in, in its boosted application and you tune it like you would a DSM, you just blew up $10k.
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ok, i agree with tufte on this one, DSM's can take alot of timing, but say like my civic when its done in the next few weeks here, if the timing got srewed up just a tiny bit, my motor would be screwed due to the higher compresion. And i personally wouldnt take my car to some one that is basically just learning on tuning.
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PSI2HI wrote:
I 100% disagree. No 1 person can tell you how to tune a car if you have really no backround in the concept. @ this point its not a learning experience and i would hope you wouldn't be learning say forced induction tuning on someones vehicle they just invested $20k into the motor.
Everyone starts somewhere.Besides, like I said before, they will have plenty of time to practice on their Sti, which I'm sure won't be cheap.
Also. Everyone starts somewhere. EVERYONE at one point was told what to do and had no background, even these world renound tuners that people spend big bucks for.
TM is obviously very good at business. I'm sure they will know their limitations, if they feel they can't tune a car, I doubt they will risk screwing up a car out of pride, or just to learn on the car.
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94NDTA wrote:
Everyone starts somewhere.Besides, like I said before, they will have plenty of time to practice on their Sti, which I'm sure won't be cheap.
Also. Everyone starts somewhere. EVERYONE at one point was told what to do and had no background, even these world renound tuners that people spend big bucks for.
TM is obviously very good at business. I'm sure they will know their limitations, if they feel they can't tune a car, I doubt they will risk screwing up a car out of pride, or just to learn on the car.
You completly missed the point. But tuning is just tuning right?
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Either way i wouldn't rely on people saying their gonna dyno cuz we've seen how that works before. Everyone says they will but when it comes down to it 5 show up. Just gonna have to bite the bullet and test it out, if it works out great, if it doesn't work out have to try promote it, sell it, or eat a loss each month.
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PSI2HI wrote:
Either way i wouldn't rely on people saying their gonna dyno cuz we've seen how that works before. Everyone says they will but when it comes down to it 5 show up. Just gonna have to bite the bullet and test it out, if it works out great, if it doesn't work out have to try promote it, sell it, or eat a loss each month.
I guess. Thats why it's a business risk. A lot of money can be made (or lost) off of business risks.If they can afford to lose some money if it doesn't work out, then I think I would try it.
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Not quite sure what the last few pages have been other than random bitching about how to tune, and that has a lot to do with wheather or not Tintmasters buys a portable dyno.
So yeah, i dunno, i just get the impression that there is some whining going on, from all parties, let's try not too bitch about it, and see if we can get some more ideas, and give them more info. Personally, i would love for them to get the dyno, and i know i would use it, but is it worth it, i duon't know, they don't know, that's why they started this.
And now we are bitching if it's possible for the same person to tune a dsm or a honda.
I don't know, seems dumb to me.................
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Phats wrote:
Not quite sure what the last few pages have been other than random bitching about how to tune, and that has a lot to do with wheather or not Tintmasters buys a portable dyno.So yeah, i dunno, i just get the impression that there is some whining going on, from all parties, let's try not too bitch about it, and see if we can get some more ideas, and give them more info. Personally, i would love for them to get the dyno, and i know i would use it, but is it worth it, i duon't know, they don't know, that's why they started this.
And now we are bitching if it's possible for the same person to tune a dsm or a honda.
I don't know, seems dumb to me.................
Because thats part of a dyno tuning service.
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Phats wrote:
oh, ok.that was sarcasm btw, you know what i mean, i agree you cannot tune the same for every car.
but the whining and bitching, i just gets old, and don't worry i'm not saying it's all you, it's just really annoying, just hopwing i can help get this a LITTLE more on track.
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I think a vast majority will get baseline runs; and see what there car may put down HP wise with bolt-on mods.
But this feeler thread is mostly just hitting up local opinions.. Not people who maybe live, 2 hours away or so; I bet a vast majority of ND ppl would rather drive to Fargo than the cities...
If it can be easily portable; than that's another advantage.
Plus the fact it's an AWD Dyno; another PLUS!
And; for Tintmaster; I think that it may also make some ppl who want to go fast, more enthused to buy the go-fast parts... Whether your na / FI / or No2
The only thing I think tintmasters should do if they get it is make it well known to the area and far out that it's available..
I'm sure ppl would come from all over in ND and upper MN.. but the only weighing factor is.. Is it worth it and if the car can be tuned for the people who wish to tune it..
I wouldn't see it being much training needed for baseline runs which I'm sure for the first couple months would be what majority of it would be.
But in the customer aspect; a lot of people may say they'll use it or even the more serious people say they'll use it more than once; but in reality maybe won't use it at all.
But than you got the flip flop side where ppl say they prolly wouldn't use it and find themselves using it more often than they thought.
Risky decisions.. But I think it'd be important that locals give their ideas and suggestions.
In reality; even the ppl who say it'd prolly be a failure suprise me they don't push for it more to utilize it themselves.
A real dyno works shows better than the "butt" dyno
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Wow, this thread blossomed since yesterday LOL.
First, re: the air temp in the shop during pulls... every dyno I've seen has a air temp correction built in. If it's colder in the shop then the dyno corrects for it which theoretically makes the temp in the shop not a issue (assuming the correction factor is accurate).
Second, I think that the numbers that the dyno puts out is important. If it reads higher or lower than a mustang dyno, a dynojet dyno, etc will be important (at least to some people) because then you can compare the HP that others are making with similar mods and tell if you are way off in your tune. What is the solution to this? I'm not sure.
DaveH
'94 Supra- 7.77 @ 176mph -
Just buy it Tintmasters, I will be the first DSM to run over 550 hp on it.. hehe
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interesting.
mayb one day i will have a ride that i would like to dyno and it sure would be nice to make a 1 or 2 hr drive to GF or fargo rather than 6 to the cities. even if price is similar you have to take into account other factors as mentioned. time to make it happen, gas, tow vehicle(mayb), room and food. if it is local then the money that was to be spent on gas and such can be spent on mods or dyno time.before they can go jumping in and setting up for Suburu, honda, nissan, toyota, mazda, ford, chevy, dodge, n/a, supercharged, turbo, nitrous mayb a poll needs to be taken to see what people are driving to know what would be the wise choice for starters. are there different programs used for the same ride? if so is it cost effective to know them all and have them all? or pick one and be good at it? will the 4wd choices offer enough room for say dave to pull 12-1400 horse from his supra? or will he not be able to make a run cuz the dyno is limited to 1000 horse? same goes for the domestic V-8's i would guess there are many in the area that can do 1000+. not the norm mind you, but if you get the reputation of tuning well you want to be able to do it across the board. and would hate to have a ceiling limit due to the dyno. right?
as we all know features tend to get added, removed, tweaked from year to year or at least time to time. so just cuz they do not have the capability to do a tune on the nissan, or infinity or chevy right away does not mean they will never have it. just meant they saw what was needed/wanted right now and simply made the business choice to choose one over another first.
as for the car audio comparison. i know all about that. tis why we bought a meter of our own. this way we knew if we made an improvement. did not matter if we started at 130 or 150. as long as we had a base to go off of.
i wish you luck in the decision making process here.
my thoughts after reading through the thread once.
Monty
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DaveH wrote:
Second, I think that the numbers that the dyno puts out is important. If it reads higher or lower than a mustang dyno, a dynojet dyno, etc will be important (at least to some people) because then you can compare the HP that others are making with similar mods and tell if you are way off in your tune. What is the solution to this? I'm not sure.I had an excel spreadsheet not to long ago where you put the number that you made and it showed what that was equal to on other dynos.
You can make a dyno read anyway you want, it's a matter of entering weight. RS motors knows this first hand.
How come tjamz with an Auto WRX and an 18g (dont know the other mods) can make 310whp on their dyno. Then my friend erik with a slowboy racing 20g, every bolt on imaginable, with "the best UTEC tuner in US" tuning only makes 303whp?
tjamz = 19psi
erik = 25psiYou can make a dyno read whatever way you want. It's seriously all in the weight, changing that makes the biggest difference possible.
Didn't want to pick on anyone, just needed an example.
EDIT: HERE IS ONE MORE EXAMPLE, both tuned by jorge:
WRX(2.0L), VF34(smaller than 16g), fmic:
STi(2.5L), deadbolt 20g, mods are on the bottom:
Adding the 360 pounds to the STi made a HUGE difference. WRX's are a little lighter, but sure as hell not 360 pounds lighter. If you want your car to read high then you say it weighs less than it does. If you want it to read low, then you say that it weighs more.
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Steve-o wrote:
Adding the 360 pounds to the STi made a HUGE difference. WRX's are a little lighter, but sure as hell not 360 pounds lighter. If you want your car to read high then you say it weighs less than it does. If you want it to read low, then you say that it weighs more.On a roller dyno such as the mustang/dynojet weight is irrelevant.
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94NDTA wrote:
I'm confused on how weight has anything to do with it. Could someone explain?A car that weighs more is given more load to overcome. It's because if your car did weigh 5000 pounds, the dyno simulates your engine moving 5000 pounds. Then some dyno's (I believe only the mustang) will add load based on an aerodynamic factor @ 50mph. So as the car accelerates load is added to compensate for the car not moving through the air.
If you set like a normal Honda on a dyno and say it weighs 8000 pounds, it probably won't be able to move the rollers at all. And a dyno uses how fast the drums are spinning to calculate the torque/HP.
Setting any parameter wrong will greatly affect how a dyno reads. Most of the companies that make dynos that everyone knows come with specific cars parameters already set for most cars...
Cliffs: I have no idea how it works.
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The only way to skew #'s on a mustand dyno or dynojet would be to run a DIN file vs SAE correction. DIN correction ratings always read high. You can always mess w/ the correction factors above a 1:1 ratio and skew the #'s. But once your corrections factor is calcualted it shouldn't be changing.
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