Shady or not?
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No thats not really true CMK. Most car audio cables have smaller strands of copper because electricity doesnt travel in the cable it actually travels on the cable. More strands = more surface area = less resistance = MORE POWER.
> Mitch Hedberg wrote:
> I'm sick of following my dreams, I'm just going to find out where they are going and hook up with them later.ASE certified parts specialist.
2004 Impala LS 3.8 -
el oh el
Like I said, wire is wire. Larger size = more copper = less resistance You still cannot get around the fact that you need to size your wire correctly. I could wire my speakers with a #12 romex if I wanted and it would be the same as using fancy ass expensive wire from best buy.
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capitlj;162913 wrote:
No thats not really true CMK. Most car audio cables have smaller strands of copper because electricity doesnt travel in the cable it actually travels on the cable. More strands = more surface area = less resistance = MORE POWER.This is true of signal wires, but DC travels through the cable, strand counts make zero difference. They are correct in recommending welding cable if you want to save a few dollars, the big difference will be in the flexibility of such cable. I have used welding cable 1/0 gauge and 2/0 and 3/0 on a number of competition systems, and will continue to do so in the future, including my own vehicle.....and I buy at cost w/ Stinger, Tsunami, Scosche, Etc...Think about this, the "ground wire" that connects your amp to your batter (aka chassis) is not stranded, and it works fine in 99% of all applications.
CMK hit it on the friggen head, wire is wire. I'll go on record saying the only major advantage of higher end RCA cables and such is in the connectors themselves, the shielding on RCA cables does almost nothing to prevent noise from being picked up (the exception being in twisted-pair cables which have some inherent noise cancelling capabilities in their design.) Proper wire routing, proper grounding, and proper size wire are the essentials to a clean signal. Period.
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Thank you for your guys input!
Couple comments though. Ya, the system that he is installing isnt the best & he is going for the cheapest route possible, like many of us do. We try to find the cheapest price for everything we buy (comparison shopping). Not a big deal.
But, the welder power cable I saw was not at all the same as car audio power cable. It had 3 separate cables inside the plastic with larger strands then normal in each cable.
Either way, shouldn't you use car audio power cable for an install (the right tool for the job) instead of welder power cable (the wrong tool for the job)? Maybe this is just an opinion? Because I don't believe that "wire is wire," Moderator. Let me show you a picture. These two wires are both 4 gauge. The one on the right is a respectable brand name 4 gauge and the one on the left is some cheap crap. I took this picture to show people to be careful of what they buy. Yes, if you size your wire correctly then you will be ok, but shouldn't you stay within the same category of wire? I could buy 0/1 gauge of the stuff on the left and it would be the same as the stuff on the right.....
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Sorry, I should have clarified what I meant by that more....I meant if the actual wire size is the same (not what is printed on the jacket, the actual strands) in two given wires they will work the same regardless of what brand they are and the strand count. Remember, not everyone uses the same standards to gauge their wire. AWG (American Wire Gauge) is the standard that should be used and company "A" should have the same size 4 awg wire as company "B" does.
As for the cable that you saw w/ 3 conductors, that is NOT welding cable, sounds more like industrial extension cord cable. The stuff I've used has a thick jacket and a single group of strands comprising its conductor (not three seperately insulated sets.) I'm not sure if MAC sells welding cable or not, I've always bought it from welding supply stores.
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Oh, and if you really want to buy 4 awg power cable from a "car stereo manufacturer" let me know and i will price up what it will cost for you to buy from me.
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http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/showthread.php?t=23207
Some of the most diehard car audio fanatics frequent this forum. They tend to agree with me.
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tjamz;162917 wrote:
This is true of signal wires, but DC travels through the cable, strand counts make zero difference. They are correct in recommending welding cable if you want to save a few dollars, the big difference will be in the flexibility of such cable. I have used welding cable 1/0 gauge and 2/0 and 3/0 on a number of competition systems, and will continue to do so in the future, including my own vehicle.....and I buy at cost w/ Stinger, Tsunami, Scosche, Etc...Think about this, the "ground wire" that connects your amp to your batter (aka chassis) is not stranded, and it works fine in 99% of all applications.CMK hit it on the friggen head, wire is wire. I'll go on record saying the only major advantage of higher end RCA cables and such is in the connectors themselves, the shielding on RCA cables does almost nothing to prevent noise from being picked up (the exception being in twisted-pair cables which have some inherent noise cancelling capabilities in their design.) Proper wire routing, proper grounding, and proper size wire are the essentials to a clean signal. Period.
QFMFT
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Very interesting CMK. I read the thread and all the replies. I guess I'll go over to Mac's and look at the specific wire he was referring to...
In most cases, like you said. Wire is wire. So for the average customer/consumer, it really doesnt matter as far as which wire is better.... just compare sizes! haha and watch out for the brand "A" on the left that tries to screw you over...
So, it sounds like you own a shop... Do you use the welding wire for your average daily amp installs? And tell customers you do so? If so, what do they say?
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4 gauge welding cable can lead us to a better tomorrow.
Used it in the past, will use it in the future also. The extra money per foot is for the fancy casing.
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pt_pimp;162933 wrote:
Very interesting CMK. I read the thread and all the replies. I guess I'll go over to Mac's and look at the specific wire he was referring to...In most cases, like you said. Wire is wire. So for the average customer/consumer, it really doesnt matter as far as which wire is better.... just compare sizes! haha and watch out for the brand "A" on the left that tries to screw you over...
So, it sounds like you own a shop... Do you use the welding wire for your average daily amp installs? And tell customers you do so? If so, what do they say?
Are you asking me?
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pt_pimp;162933 wrote:
Very interesting CMK. I read the thread and all the replies. I guess I'll go over to Mac's and look at the specific wire he was referring to...In most cases, like you said. Wire is wire. So for the average customer/consumer, it really doesnt matter as far as which wire is better.... just compare sizes! haha and watch out for the brand "A" on the left that tries to screw you over...
So, it sounds like you own a shop... Do you use the welding wire for your average daily amp installs? And tell customers you do so? If so, what do they say?
I think you meant to refer to me. Yes, I own a shop (Trafik Jamz...part of Boost Innovations 3130 Fiechtner Drive Unit B), and no I don't use it for most of my customers installs, only those that require ridiculous amounts of current to be passed. Unlike most audio shops, I'm not trying to quadruple my money on wire/cable. I am out to make money, but not rape my customers in the process. Usually it makes sense for me to buy the "amp kits" w/ RCA/Power/Remote Turn On/Speaker cable already in them. It saves me time of having to hunt down each of those things individually, and it allows me to make a few bucks in the process (that is why I'm in business after all.) On the rare occassions that I do use welding cable, I charge nothing extra for it, explain why I'm using it, etc... Most people could not care less what is used for wire so long as it works properly and is the proper awg wire....and if you can't identify welding cable vs "power cable" just by popping your hood open or looking at your amp, you need glasses. So I'm fairly sure SoS tells their customers ahead of time as well.
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Ya, sorry, I was referring to tjamz. I thought I had heard of Traffic Jamz before, at the last Radio & TV Inc. convention, right? When Fishman was there....
That's all good to know, thank you! I dont know how SoS presents the use of the welding power cable for regular installs or otherwise, but you sound like you do it respectably!
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Yup, I was at the show when "Fish" was there. Were you at the show? If so, which shop were you with (and did I talk with you?) If you want to see the current specials I have going, check the "Trafik Jamz" section in the vendors portion of this forum.
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back in the day when i was putting together competition stereos i used to get battery cable from the interstate battery warehouse in south fargo, that was 0ga but it worked great and they had all sizes. I think it was interstate battery anyway, that was a few years back so idk.
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MC as in Modulating Current cable? that shit is the bomb.
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