Obama / Democrats
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Mitt Romney is a toolshed. He doesn't stand for anything at all. That's the worst kind of politician.
I'm not aware of anyone I could vote for right now besides Ron Paul. Doesn't matter who the republicans pick -- I'm writing in Ron Paul (or maybe someone else will emerge before then).
Jim -- I think McCain might have been "some" better but probably not much. And you are right, even though I think Obama's ideology is wrong, there are several things that the said he would do that he COULD have and didn't that would have been the right things. There were a lot of things Bush did wrong that Obama and the dems promised to stop or fix, and then they fucking backed out of ALL of them.
A real democrat that actually cared about freedom for brown people etc would have gotten rid of all of the domestic wiretapping shit, would have addressed renditions, Guantanamo, etc. Obama did NONE of that. Infact, Obama apparently decided he liked how all that dictator power that Bush wrote in for himself felt, and so he kept it, 100%. Asshole.
It doesn't matter who we vote for in 2010 and 2012: Unless they are Ron Paul, or do all the shit Ron Paul would do, this country is done for. We're out of money, looking to start more wars in more places, and everyone hates each other. It's going to get uglier. Oh, and China keeps developing space weapons, so that when we say "Sorry, we don't have that 2 trillion we owe you", they can say "We bet you can find it, because we can see it just fine from up here"
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In my opinion Obama has been a disappointment. He preached change and i think his intentions were good but ran into the clusterfuck that is our government. Bitter republicans not coming up with any real answers shooting down any idea the democratic party comes up with in spite is no doubt going to be counterproductive. The economic situation is not something that just happened over night, it was a built up over years of bad practices and policies implemented by a number of different parties that assumed power. Obama was facing an uphill battle after he was elected, day 1. Basically the population as a whole is tired of the smoke a mirrors that is our government and that’s why you see people, who seemingly have no experience or intelligence as in the case of the South Carolina’s Alvin Greene getting the primary. The assumption is that if someone is unknown then they are not corrupted by special interest groups ect. Another point highlighted is the obvious lack of intelligence of the majority of our population. I remember seeing an interview of voters that were asked who they voted for and why and one response was verbatim “I voted for the other guy because I don’t like that Husain thing” were the person somehow associated obama with sadam Husain. (names contain some of the same letters??)I mean Jesus Christ really? (note referring to the person who they voted for referred to as THE OTHER GUY) Fox News as a whole is another herpes breakout on the lips of new broadcasting( I still say daily show/Colbert report most unbiased news on television) So we vote republican the next time around, my bet is same old shit. The classic argument of a giant douche or a turd sandwich….yes I love comedy central…..lesson of the day: get a job and put all your money in a mattress(that is until the monetary system fails)…world ends in 2012 anyway so who cares….
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burnteclipse;315761 wrote:
In my opinion Obama has been a disappointment. He preached change and i think his intentions were good but ran into the clusterfuck that is our government. **Bitter republicans not coming up with any real answers shooting down any **idea the democratic party comes up with in spite is no doubt going to be counterproductive.Sorry, the Dems have a supermajority. The Repubs can't shoot down anything.
DaveH
'94 Supra- 7.77 @ 176mph -
burnteclipse;315761 wrote:
In my opinion Obama has been a disappointment. He preached change and i think his intentions were good but ran into the clusterfuck that is our government. Bitter republicans not coming up with any real answers shooting down any idea the democratic party comes up with in spite is no doubt going to be counterproductive. The economic situation is not something that just happened over night, it was a built up over years of bad practices and policies implemented by a number of different parties that assumed power. Obama was facing an uphill battle after he was elected, day 1. Basically the population as a whole is tired of the smoke a mirrors that is our government and that’s why you see people, who seemingly have no experience or intelligence as in the case of the South Carolina’s Alvin Greene getting the primary. The assumption is that if someone is unknown then they are not corrupted by special interest groups ect. Another point highlighted is the obvious lack of intelligence of the majority of our population. I remember seeing an interview of voters that were asked who they voted for and why and one response was verbatim “I voted for the other guy because I don’t like that Husain thing” were the person somehow associated obama with sadam Husain. (names contain some of the same letters??)I mean Jesus Christ really? (note referring to the person who they voted for referred to as THE OTHER GUY) Fox News as a whole is another herpes breakout on the lips of new broadcasting( I still say daily show/Colbert report most unbiased news on television) So we vote republican the next time around, my bet is same old shit. The classic argument of a giant douche or a turd sandwich….yes I love comedy central…..lesson of the day: get a job and put all your money in a mattress(that is until the monetary system fails)…world ends in 2012 anyway so who cares….WOW, your view on politics is so warped and uninformed its not even funny. You sir have no real clue about the principles that made this country what it is, and Stewart/colbert is news??? What a fucking retard dude, you are the reason this country is going to shit
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DaveH;315765 wrote:
Sorry, the Dems have a supermajority. The Repubs can't shoot down anything.The Republicans just call everything that Democrats pass "socialist" and "job killing" and hope that the American people are dumb enough to believe it. For a party that apparently cares so much about small businesses, only two voted for a bill that would extend some $30 billion in loans to small businesses to potentially help create an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 jobs.
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I love how people continually blame the Republicans as of late when the fact of the matter is, the Democrats don't need ANY Republican support to pass their agendas. If blaming Republicans makes you feel better about yourself and the world you live in, that's great, but it just helps show how stupid and uninformed you are. The only smart thing I have yet to see so far is part of burnteclipses post...both parties are out for themselves only.
Biggest problem is the fact that the 2 parties have a stranglehold on our political system. THAT, coupled with the fact that most people view a 3rd party vote as a wasted vote means nothing about the current situation will ever change. Little grassroots tea party elections are popping up but once again, it just divides either the Republican vote or the Democratic vote and the last thing this country needs is another 4 years of Nobama.
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MisterCMK;315548 wrote:
Honestly, the best thing for this president would be to have a Republican Congress. When one party is in control of everything this is what happens...I agree whole-heartedly. I think I said that it was a bad thing that the dems had control of everything after the last election cycle......I want a Democrat president that has the power to veto the most extreme right wing bills that come his way OR I want a Republican president who can veto the extreme left wing bills.
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amicheze;315767 wrote:
The Republicans just call everything that Democrats pass "socialist" and "job killing"Who creates jobs?
and hope that the American people are dumb enough to believe it.
Well, they are still politicians
For a party that apparently cares so much about small businesses, only two voted for a bill that would extend some $30 billion in loans to small businesses to potentially help create an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 jobs.
The problem is that republicans are better at math.
First off, where do you think that 30 billion comes from? The tooth fairy? No, it comes from the small fraction of Americans who actually pay taxes and aren't a bunch of looting freeloaders. Coincidentally, most small businesses and small business owners are the very same TAX PAYERS who are bankrolling this bullshit. You don't need to be a genius to figure out that voting to steal 30 billion from people so you can give a little of it back to them is a bad deal.
Finally, if you divide 30 billion by 700,000, Uncle Sam is proposing to spend about 42k/year for each of those jobs it will somehow create.
As you know, that's about $21/hr if you're talking 40 hr weeks an 50 week years (2000 hrs/yr).
What do you want to bet that if any jobs are created at all, they wont be paying anywhere near 21/hr ?
The government needs to stop fucking with the economy. Everytime it does, it is a complete failure, with all kinds of bad side effects. Nobody in DC is smart enough to run the economy; read up on the Calculation Problem on Wikipedia. But don't take my word for it -- just look at the track record of these assholes.
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Trafik Jamz;315772 wrote:
I agree whole-heartedly. I think I said that it was a bad thing that the dems had control of everything after the last election cycle......I want a Democrat president that has the power to veto the most extreme right wing bills that come his way OR I want a Republican president who can veto the extreme left wing bills.What's an example of an "extreme right wing" bill that you'd want veto'd ?
What does "extreme right wing" mean to you ?
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burnteclipse;315761 wrote:
Bitter republicans not coming up with any real answers shooting down any idea the democratic party comes up with in spite is no doubt going to be counterproductive.Suppose, for the sake of argument, that every single bill that the democrats come up with is bad.
Is it counter productive for the republicans to do nothing more than vote against them?
I mean, the country isn't going to come off the rails if a bunch of new stupid laws don't get passed this session. I always tell people I'd be happy to pay our congressmen twice as much to just stay home -- think of how much better off we'd be.
If the republicans did nothing for this entire session but keep more bullshit from getting passed, that would be a fantastic achievement.
There are problems in this country that need solving -- that's for certain. But most of them were created by corrupt and imbecilic politicians. As long as the federal government is staffed by these same corrupt imbeciles, let's not ask them to do anything more important than wiping their asses. When they've demonstrated they can do that without a lot of scandal, corruption, graft, and grandstanding, maybe we should start trusting them to walk with scissors again.
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thrash;315785 wrote:
The problem is that republicans are better at math.First off, where do you think that 30 billion comes from? The tooth fairy? No, it comes from the small fraction of Americans who actually pay taxes and aren't a bunch of looting freeloaders. Coincidentally, most small businesses and small business owners are the very same TAX PAYERS who are bankrolling this bullshit. You don't need to be a genius to figure out that voting to steal 30 billion from people so you can give a little of it back to them is a bad deal.
Finally, if you divide 30 billion by 700,000, Uncle Sam is proposing to spend about 42k/year for each of those jobs it will somehow create.
As you know, that's about $21/hr if you're talking 40 hr weeks an 50 week years (2000 hrs/yr).
What do you want to bet that if any jobs are created at all, they wont be paying anywhere near 21/hr ?
The government needs to stop fucking with the economy. Everytime it does, it is a complete failure, with all kinds of bad side effects. Nobody in DC is smart enough to run the economy; read up on the Calculation Problem on Wikipedia. But don't take my word for it -- just look at the track record of these assholes.
Your math is assuming that every dollar spent goes directly to labor and labor only. That would be completely ridiculous. I sure hope that you don't consider yourself a "better at math" Republican.
So what's your solution to the economy? Let's see a full plan of action.
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amicheze;315792 wrote:
Your math is assuming that every dollar spent goes directly to labor and labor only. That would be completely ridiculous. I sure hope that you don't consider yourself a "better at math" Republican.that was my point. the rest of the money is getting wasted.
the government is going to steal 30 billion from the kinds of people who create jobs -- enough money that the private sector could have created 700,000 jobs paying 42k/year.but you already concede that any jobs created with this money won't pay that much, and i think nobody beleives that 700k jobs will be "Created" as a result of this action.
So what's your solution to the economy? Let's see a full plan of action.
Step 0: plug the leaks.
Stop as much federal spending as possible as soon as possible. The eastiest most politically expedient thing to do here is to stop war spending by stopping the wars in a hurry. Remove federal programs and expenditures, prioritized in reverse order of financial/societal displacement on the largest numbers of people. I.e. kill a program that only helps 150 people a little, dont mess with social security because everybody depends on it a lot.Step 1: stabilize the government participation in the economy. 30 billion here and there isn't going to get people to hire again. Business people need to PLAN for the future, otherwise they cannot invest appropriately. Since Obama took office the entire world has been turned upside down. Hiring people costs more money (e.g. the health care law), taxes are much higher, and are going to continue to get higher. Nobody knows who is going to get bailed out next, so people are waiting to see what the government does. It's like a bull in a china shop and the private sector is paralyzed.
So that shit has to stop and the dust has to settle. The government must try and regain credibility with business owners and investors -- that is the only way the economy grows and jobs get created.
Step 2: With things stabilized, begin the drawdown of government manipulation in the market place, and continue cutting federal spending, this time being more invasive in terms of cutting things that will affect people. As the economy gains the ability to absorb labor, more support programs can be re-worked. As the economy begins to recover, surgical cuts can slowly be made here and there to make business owners even MORE free of government red tape.
Step 3: de-criminalize the use of alternative currencies within the united states; eliminate rules and policies (like secret service raids) that dissaude people from using alternatives to the US dollar. The dollar is toxic, and it is sitting on a mountain of lies and manipulation. But society needs to have alternatives to use while the dollar sorts itself out. It may be that there is actually still gold left in Fort Knox, and the dollar can re-establish a stable value. During this time the manipulation and corruption within the federal reserve needs to be examined and healed. But this has to happen slowly so the dollar doesn't collapse over nite. People need stability while the damage works itself out of the system.
Step 4: The federal reserve should be eliminated, and private banks should NOT have the ability to create some of the paper (electronic) instruments they create. The plain truth here is that I am not well versed enough in all of the crazy shit that goes on in wall street to see the root cause and to most cleverly detassle it. But the key issue is that wall street folks are making paper money off of paper money and creating hypothetical currency bubbles. This is inflation, and the power to inflate fiat money that we are legally required to use should never have been delegated to private actors -- namely the bankers and wallstreet and their close cousins, the federal reserve banks.
The financial industry in the US used to be a means to end -- bankrolling legitimate productive activity. But now it is its own end, and as we saw, it has the power to cause the US to default on its soverignty. Any situation where there is private profit and socialized risk (i.e. tax payer bailouts) should be eliminated.
Goal:
The goal is that the federal government is much smaller and does much less. States have more power, and people have even more power still. States and people keep more of their money, and their money isn't necessarily US dollars, and certainly isn't US dollars in the way we think of them today.The dollar has been changed 3 or 4 times since the early 20th century (mostly shifting from full gold convertability to fully-fiat based)... its not radical or crazy to suggest that we can change it again.
THe fact of the matter is this: the two biggest problems in the economy are irresponsible creation of debt instruments, and unpredictable government intervention. The two combine together to make people hesitant to spend "real" money, but eager to spend borowed money irresponsibly. THat's what has gotten us in this mess.
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~Extend Bush's tax cuts
~Close tax loophole making it cheaper to outsource vs. use American labor
~Impose HEAVY fines, and more, on any company found employing illegal immigrants
~Deal with the Fed. If you feel up to it, go do some research on inflation figures pre/post Fed. The dollar held its value fairly stead up until the creation of the fed, then upon the creation of the fed, inflation has made the value of a dollar drop to about .01 of what it was back in 1920.
~Get rid of Obamacare
~Stop wasting money on a stimulus that won't do anything. It's simple, proven, well known economics that a taxpayer funded stimulus just makes those who have money (businesses and the wealthier) stash it away where it can't be touched...rather than...investing it and hiring new workers! And Obama said we MUST pass that stimulus to prevent unemployment from hitting %10+. Looks like that turned out well lolHaven't you ever noticed how everything the Federal Government gets involved with ends up going bankrupt and is embarrassingly inefficient? It's because it has no need to run efficiently and money is not an object to it. Federal programs are some of the most corrupt establishments in the country and this corruption and inefficiency leads to inflation because the Fed just ends up printing more money for the Government, injecting worthless green paper into the economy and driving down the value per dollar in the process. A large portion of the problems we face are BECAUSE of the Government.
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